Why Helping a Stranger Feels So Uncomfortable — Bob Fabey

 

Airdate: January 7, 2026

Julie Rose: Why does helping a stranger feel so uncomfortable?

Bob Fabey: It is not convenient ever, uh, to help people, even if, if it's a moment where you say, "Hey, are you good?" Even that moment, you know, there's, there can be fear in us, and I think fear is a huge motivator for why people don't get uncomfortable.

Julie Rose: Hey, it's Julie. Welcome to Uncomfy, a show about sticking with moments that challenge us even when they're uncomfortable. And I get it, nobody likes to be Uncomfy, but I've learned from experience, and you probably have too, that sometimes a little discomfort has benefits if we stay open and curious about it. And that's what we're here to explore, so let's get Uncomfy. I'm joined today by Bob Fabey. He's a pastor at Living Faith Anglican Church in Tempe, Arizona. He's author of a couple of books. One is called, "Not My Jesus," and the other is, "The Dignity Gap." Father Fabey, welcome. It's good to have you.

Bob Fabey: Thank, thank you so much, and you can just call me Bob. No worries.

Julie Rose: I appreciate it. I was hoping you could start with an experience that you've told, uh, in one of your TEDx talks, actually, about, um, being in a grocery store when a stranger collapsed.

Bob Fabey: Yeah, uh, it was really strange. My wife and I were there for a conference. We went into a small grocery store to just get a few things, and we heard this really sickening sound, and you just kind of know, like, something's wrong, so I went to the end of the aisle, and I saw an elderly lady laying on her back, and I walked up to her and took a look at her and just tried to make sure, like, "Hey, is she okay? What's going on? Did she, did she hit her head?" Which is what I thought she did, and so when I looked down at her, I could see she was really, she was really spooked, and, and, and I said, "Hey, you know, uh, I, you know, something, looks like you fell, you know, are you doing okay?" And she said, "Yeah, I think so," and as she was talking, there's this, this, this little puddle of blood started to form, uh, behind her head, and, and so I tried not to, I tried not to react, you know, and she was, she started to reach back, and I said, "You know, you probably don't want to do that because, you know, it looks like you got a little bit of a cut there," and, and, you know, I know that head wounds are vascular and whatever, but I, I, I was just like, "Hey, you know, um, let's get somebody to help you," and I called, uh, one of the, one of the folks who worked there, uh, called them over and said, "Could you, could you please call the paramedics?" And, um, where we were in the store is near the front, and people were literally stepping over her body in order to get to the till to check out as if, as if she wasn't even there. It was such a, um, such an important moment for me as a, as a metaphor for what happens in our culture often.

Julie Rose: Yeah, well expand on that for me, then.

Bob Fabey: Well, I think, I think that people look at others as things to be stepped over or even just objects, really. I think there's so much objectification in our, in our culture. I mean, if I can make someone an object, then I can treat them however I want, and, um, there's a person who's laying there, and they're in trouble, and, um, they were literally stepping over her as if it was like a puddle, uh, something to be avoided. So, I'm sitting here as you're talking about this lady lying on the floor and people kind of stepping over to get to the tills or whatever in the grocery store, and I'm thinking, "Well, gosh, I hope, I hope I would be like Bob and stop and help," right?

Julie Rose: Yeah. Part of me also, though, thinks, "I could just as easily, like, I, I, I would mean no harm, I'm not trying to objectify this person who is in trouble, but also I'm not a doctor. Clearly it's under control. Me stopping is maybe only just gonna cause trouble or get in the way." You know, kind of, I could see there are lots of reasons that I could imagine myself not stopping, you know what I'm saying? So, so, can we, yeah, let's, I mean, let's flesh that out a little bit more because, uh, I will say, I, I feel a little, um, I feel a little chastised, but also kind of, it feels a little unfair to say, "All these people are objectifying this lady as they step over," so what is it, do you think, that's kind of going on in that moment that makes it easier to step over?

Bob Fabey: Sure, and I do want to, I do wanna say, uh, I totally get it. I, I, I understand why people would not, and, uh, stop and do all those things. The issue, the issue was where she was located. It was right next to the tills, somebody could have just as easily gone to a different cash register, so, so it was like, it was like a very, I mean, it was like, "No, I'm gonna check out, and, and I'm gonna step over her body in order to, just to get my groceries and go," and so, uh, the feeling of chastisement, I understand, and, and I think at some point, um, it's okay for us to feel that a little bit when you're talking about being Uncomfy because the idea for me is that it is not convenient ever, uh, to help people, and even if, if it's a moment where you say, "Hey, are you good? Uh, can I help?" Or, "Do you need anything?" Even that moment, um, you know, there's, there can be fear in us, and I think fear is a huge motivator for why people don't get uncomfortable, um, but I think even in that moment, you know, the, the, the fear of like, "Oh, I could get caught up in this," or, "Oh, I don't know what to do." I mean, I'm certainly not a doctor, um, but I, but I know enough to say like, "Hey, um, this gal needs help, and I'm, I'm willing to be, you know, Uncomfy, to have my, my day derailed a bit in order to, to be present to this gal."

Julie Rose: I mean, do, do you typically stop, or is this something that you've kind of had to learn, uh, in, over time?

Bob Fabey: Yeah, you know, I think there's both/and, right? There had been other times where, you know, there's people who were in need, and I have no idea what to do. That's honestly, I pray often. I kind of pray all the time anyways, not just because I wear a collar, but, you know, it's like, "I'm not sure what the wisest thing to do is," and I, and I try to listen very clearly to that, and, uh, and that, that's part of the challenge of, of knowing when to stop, how to help, all of those kinds of things. I think I try to pay close attention to my heart, and if I sense that I'm saying something like, "Somebody else can do this today," that's when I try to get uncomfortable. Um, so for instance, recently this car stopped in a major intersection near where I work, and, um, I just said to the gal, "Hey, are you okay?" And, um, I was, uh, keenly aware of the fact that she's an African-American gal, she's single, she has kids in the car, uh, I'm an older white guy, and so this is uncomfortable already, and she even mentioned it later. She was like, "Yeah, I wasn't sure about so whether or not I should, you know, listen to you or what I should do," um, but, you know, wound up helping her, and, and it was good. Now, was it inconvenient? Yes. Now, how do I do that? I practice it. I, I, none of this is perfect, so I always think of my practice, my faith. So, I don't, I don't look at it like, "Oh, I do this every time." I look at it like, just like I would anything, "I'm practicing it. I'm trying to get better at it."

Julie Rose: So, have, have you ever been stepped over, or, or I guess sort of, you know, on,

Bob Fabey: objectified,

Julie Rose: side or on the flip side, helped, you know, in, in some way has someone stopped for you?

Bob Fabey: Yeah, well, uh, when I was growing up, I had a, a massive overbite, uh, so I understand what it means to be objectified. Uh, as a kid, you know how that goes. If you have a difference, then, you know, everybody kind of points that out and, and makes fun of you and that kind of thing, and so, uh, it wasn't until high school when I actually got braces, but I, um, I think there were times where you know, you mentioned, "Was there ever a time when somebody came to me in a time of need?" And, um, I had a teacher by the name of Mr. Jones who really did that for me, where, uh, I was struggling greatly. I, this was in, uh, middle school, I had contemplated suicide. There were a, a variety of factors around that, and I, um, I was, I was disruptive in class often, and, uh, he pulled me out, uh, one day and, uh, he said, he said, "Hey, listen, you know, uh, I want you to do me a favor. I want you to take a, take a piece of paper," and he said, "I want you to draw a line down the middle of it, and I want you to, to write down on the right side everything you like about yourself," and I thought, "This is, what are we doing here, you know?" "And then on the left side," he said, "You know, and write down everything you don't like about yourself." So, you know, he gave me, I don't know, five or 10 minutes, whatever it was, and so the, the side that says, "I like myself," I had very few things on that, and the side that, "I don't," you know, had a, had a ton of stuff, and so I showed it to him, and he said, "Okay, you know, that's interesting," and then he pulled out a piece of paper to, to the best of my memory, he pulled out a piece of paper, and he laid it on the, on the table, and he had written the exact same thing where he had a line, and he had all the things that he liked about me and all the things he didn't like about me, and it was the exact opposite where he had very few things that he didn't like about me and an awful lot that he did, and that meant a great deal, uh, to me, and so that, that, that moment, I would love to say, uh, changed the course of my life, and it didn't; however, I think it was a seed that was planted about dignity and about what it means to treat people as if they aren't just objects, but they're, but they're humans and, and they have inherent worth, and so I'm really grateful for, you know, Mr. Jones, you know, look, overlooking what he's seeing on the outside and, uh, and not stepping over me in that case.

Julie Rose: So, dignity is something that you think about, write about a lot, you talk about, I imagine you also preach about, what is the religious or spiritual, um, layer, uh, or meaning to dignity and, and is it different do you think, than from what we sort of talk about in, you know, secular life?

Bob Fabey: Yeah, I think, I think it's important because in the secular world, we can use the word "dignity," and people kind of have an understanding, although they get it confused with "respect," uh, all the time. They say, "Dignity and respect," and, and respect is behavior based. It's literally from the Latin, "to look back upon," so respect is something you can earn and you can lose, and it is not the same. Dignity—

Julie Rose: Based on your behavior. Oh, that's interesting.

Bob Fabey: It's based, it's behavior based a hundred percent, and so, so, so you don't have to respect people, but you do, uh, have to treat them with dignity, and so then when you take a look at the scriptures, I would, you know, go to Genesis, another text in the Bible, where it says, "You were made in God's image," what that means is that you are actually the pinnacle of creation. It's not simply just something to, um, sit back and bask, uh, bask in, but more, more vocation. So, what, what does it mean to be made in God's image? It means to, to reflect what He is like to his creation, so, so that we are then, um, mirrors, if you will, of saying like, "You wanna know what God is like? Here," and that begins with dignity. So, part of it is that we have a vocation for that, meaning that's our job, but then also it's something that when I look at another human being, I recognize that in them.

Julie Rose: What happens when that's not the default for a society, if we're not sort of going around with our dignity lens on, right, which is challenging because,

Bob Fabey: it is so challenging,

Julie Rose: people are annoying, and also they're, you know, uh, harmful and hurtful?

Bob Fabey: Yeah, and I, I really think it's important to be able to talk about behaviors and not identity. So, so I can talk about somebody's behavior and say, "That behavior's unacceptable. I love you, and you don't get to behave that way." Now, anybody who has children understands that a hundred percent, We all say, "I love you," and, "That behavior's not okay," and we're able to do that with people that are easy to love, that we, we want to be in a relationship with, the problem is that we are quick to say, "I'm not like that other person. I don't like that person," and that's the objectification that happens, and it's up to the people who know better, uh, for us to be the ones to say, "No, I have to do this. Um, it's super uncomfortable. Uh, I have to treat people that I don't like, that I don't agree with, with dignity." Uh, when we remove that, we become far more polarized and embittered and, uh, ultimately that, that goes down roads that I think nobody really wants to go down.

Julie Rose: Bob, I know that you've, um, spent time in Rwanda,

Bob Fabey: mm,

Julie Rose: that experienced a devastating, um, genocide in the nineties, and, um, this is a sister parish, is that right? There's a, there's a congregation, a whole group of churches that are, that you learn from one another, so it's, it's not a humanitarian thing, it's like a, you know, it's, I guess it's like a sharing of information. Is that,

Bob Fabey: yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, thank you for that clarification. Yeah, super important. A lot of people think, "Oh, you just go and build something and take a picture," you know? And that is not at all what we do.

Julie Rose: So, as you minister to and are ministered to by, um, your, your Rwandan brothers and sisters, I'm just curious, um, if that has shaped your understanding of, I guess, the risks of, you know, when dignity fails or is absent in, um, in our interactions with one another.

Bob Fabey: Yeah, I, um, I, it a hundred percent has shaped that. I think that you can't be friends with or be engaged with people who have suffered in that way without having that, uh, impact you greatly, and I, I'm, you know, so, when you call somebody a name, you know, "Oh, that person's so stupid," you know, you're putting a label over them that, that God would never do, and then now you're speaking truth over them in a way that's not okay, and when you do that repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly. So, for instance, the, the two tribes, the major tribes, uh, that existed previously, uh, in Rwanda were called the Hutu and the Tutsi, and the Hutu would call the Tutsi, "cockroaches." "Never trust a cockroach," and they would, they would use that term over and over again. And what do we know? I mean, cockroaches are gross, you step on them, they, you turn on the light, they scatter. Well, you can't hear that for very long before you actually start thinking like that, and I'm, I'm always concerned when people say things like, "Oh, they're a Nazi. Oh, they're this. Oh, they're that." I, I just, right away I just go like, "Hey, we've gotta be better about how we approach this," because when you see what's happened in light of those things, it is horrific on, on every level, so now in Rwanda, they do not use the term "Hutu" and "Tutsi," they just say "Rwandan." No labels. They're Rwandese. And it's not like it's, it's not like it's just all peachy keen. You know, there's still difficulties and there's still lots of pain. You know, not everybody can forgive, and, and, and so, you know, it's not as if this is some kind of, you know, you, you know, perfect place or anything like that, but, but it is a, um, the people, area, every time somebody asks me, you know, "Oh, you go to Rwanda?" And I'm like, "Yeah," and they're like, "Oh, do you see the gorillas?" And I say, "I don't. I, I go there for the people. I don't, you know, I don't care about the gorillas, I care about the people. Uh, they're beautiful and, the, and, and amazing."

Julie Rose: Bob Fabey is a pastor at Living Faith Anglican Church in Tempe, Arizona. He's written a couple of books. One of them is called, "Not My Jesus," the other is "The Dignity Gap," and he's also given a couple of TEDx talks you can find online If you're interested, I would recommend it. Bob Fabey, thanks so much for your time today.

Bob Fabey: Super happy to be here. Thank you.

Julie Rose: And thank you for getting Uncomfy with us today. I'd love to hear your thoughts on today's conversation. Is there a recent moment you can think of when you chose to embrace discomfort instead of backing away? Whatever it was, I'd love to hear it. Email uncomfy@byu.edu, or join us on social media to continue the conversation; we are @uncomfy.podcast on Instagram. Uncomfy is a BYUradio podcast. Samuel Benson produces it, and the team includes Hyobin Kim and Sam Payne. Our theme music was composed by Kelsey Nay. I'm Julie Rose. Can't wait to get Uncomfy with you again next week.