Why Small Acts of Kindness Matter More Than You Think – Nicole Karlis

Airdate: August 6, 2025

Julie Rose: When is the last time you did a small kindness for somebody else?

Nicole Karlis: The other people in my training were like, "Yeah, why not? Like, what's the harm? Like, why don't you do it and see how you feel?" And, it definitely, yeah, I think at times felt weird and uncomfortable, but I remember after just feeling a different type of good.

Julie Rose: Hey there, it's Julie. Welcome to Uncomfy, a show about sticking with moments that challenge us even when they're uncomfortable. And I know you're probably wondering, "Why would anybody choose to be uncomfortable?" But I know from personal experience, and you probably do too, that sometimes a little bit of discomfort has benefits if we can stay open and curious about it. And that is what we're here to explore, so let's get Uncomfy.

Julie Rose: I'm joined by Nicole Karlis. She's an award-winning journalist and author, and she's got a new book called "Your Brain On Altruism: the Power of Connection and Community During Times of Crisis." It was inspired actually by an Uncomfy experience that she had, so I'm excited to talk through this with her. Nicole, welcome.

Nicole Karlis: Hi, Julie. Thank you for having me.

Julie Rose: So, tell us about the origin story here.What was the situation that you were in where you began to start thinking more seriously about altruism?

Nicole Karlis: Right, yeah, so the story of my book begins about 10 years ago. I was in Rishikesh, India, um, doing a yoga teacher training. It was at the end of, um, a personal kind of, like, backpacking, you know, "find yourself" trip I was on. And, at the time, I was feeling, dealing with a lot of anxiety. Um, I was just kind of feeling a little lost in my life, and so one day my teacher, um, offered to take us to his Vedic astrologer, whose opinions he really respected. When, you know, he was kind of going through difficult times, he would consult with this Vedic astrologer. And I went, and he, you know, I had to give my birthday and time of, um, birth and, you know, so he could make a birth chart for me. This was my first time doing something like this, but I, I was curious, you know, to ask, "How would you deal with anxiety, if you were feeling really anxious and having a lot of, uh, ruminating thoughts going on in your mind?" And he looked at me, and he wrote me, essentially, a prescription, and they were, um, specifically to do acts of kindness. So, one I remember was to go buy a bag of dry lentil beans and give it to someone who was begging on the street, and another one was to go buy a blanket and to go to this kind of, like, rehabilitation center where people who had, uh, leprosy were living and to go donate the blanket to them. And I thought that was really interesting that that's how he told me to, to deal with my anxiety, and that was the first time that it occurred to me that there can be health, um, benefits from, from being of service to others.

Julie Rose: Yeah, you thought it was interesting, but in that moment, were you also a little skeptical or annoyed?

Nicole Karlis: Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Julie Rose: Like, "Come on, dude, I was asking you for some help and you're just telling me to go buy lentils. Like, what?"

Nicole Karlis: Yeah, eh, exactly. It felt definitely, yeah, counterintuitive, right? Like, probably I even was like, "Should I do this? Like, this is kind of, is it weird that I'm actually now going to go do this?" Um, but I,

Julie Rose: so you decided you would go ahead and do it?

Nicole Karlis: I did, yes, because, um, the other people in my training were like, "Yeah, why not? Like, what's the harm? Like, why don't you do it and see how you feel?" Um, so, yeah, I did, and I remember just trying to do it with the intention of, like, being aware of how I was feeling in that moment. And, it definitely, yeah, I think at times felt weird and uncomfortable, but I remember after just feeling a different type of good. You know, not feeling like, "Oh, I just had this amazing yoga class," um, but instead like I had done something that had a purpose, that had a deeper purpose. And I, you know, started to think, "Oh, you know, we're living in this moment where self-care has become really popular, where the wellness movement is becoming really popular. It's, like, a multi-trillion dollar industry every year, and maybe, you know, people are paying all this money to feel good, but maybe another way to feel good is to actually, like, volunteer in your community and be of service to others." And then, because I'm a health and science journalist, I started, the wheels started turning, you know, "Are scientists studying this?" So, that's, um, yeah, kind of the beginning of my book.

Julie Rose: So, then you went and did a bunch of research. What's something that you have learned about the effect that being kind to others, serving others actually has on, I mean, does it actually do something different in the brain than caring for yourself?

Nicole Karlis: Yes, and in, in many ways it does. So, I mean, I think it's interesting because people think you know, doing something nice for someone else, it's kind of a fluffy, you know, nice to have. I think if people think about altruism and health, they, yeah, like I said, think it's a nice to have, like, not a must-have.

We think we have to have good nutrition, that we have to exercise, but when I was interviewing a neuroscientist, they told me it is absolutely a must-have for good brain health, and that's because it gives people a sense of purpose. And another thing is that neuroscientists have also found, that giving to others, it can provide a, like, more durable, um, type of pleasure, per the brain's reward system,

Julie Rose: um, instead of just doing something nice for yourself. Does the act of service itself matter? Do you get a bigger effect if it's more, if it's larger, or if it takes more effort, if it's more expensive, if it takes more time, you know what I'm saying?

Nicole Karlis: Well, what I say is that it really depends. In my book, I write that people go through different seasons of their life as it pertains to altruism. So, you can be either in a season of giving, a season of receiving, or even a season of witnessing, and we all benefit from all of those seasons, but then especially when people are in a season of giving and are able to be of service more, and we see more of that, we hear more of that in our communities, we're all benefiting from that. It doesn't matter, like, how big the, the act is, but I usually say that if you're volunteering, like, with the same organization, um, once a week regularly, that's where you're gonna have, like, the optimal health benefits that I talk about in my book. But that's not to say that, you know, just giving where you can and when you can is still important to, to people's health.

Julie Rose: Tell me more about why you would get the maximum health benefits if you were doing it with the same organization once a week.

Nicole Karlis: Yeah, so there are a few reasons, and one is just, like, really obvious that usually volunteering requires you to be really physical. People can be, you know, on their feet running around, you know, this organization, maybe moving things. Um, it's also, it can be very social, so people are seeing the same people, and then it's also having that shared sense of purpose and that's really what differentiates volunteering from joining a, some sort of, like, social club or hobby group. Like, yes, it is nice to do that and those are necessary in our lives, too, and, you know, a lot of people have some, some sort of, you know, social group for the same reasons that they might be drawn to volunteering in their community as well, but when you're, you know, part of an organization and you're, you have the shared purpose and you're all there to be of service to the community in some way, um, people really need that. There's a lot of research about there, about, like, aging and how important it is to have a sense of purpose as you age. One of the researchers who I interview a lot in my book, and I, I mention him, his research, his name is Dr. Eric Kim. He has been researching purpose and aging for decades, and I've talked to him and asked him, like, "Is it actually volunteering that helps people have fewer hospital visits as they age, that they live longer because they're volunteering?" And he, he says, "Absolutely, yes. Volunteering can help you live, live longer."

Julie Rose: You, uh, spend a lot of time with a lot of people serving in a lot of different ways. Tell us about someone you met or a project that's ongoing that you, that you learned a lot from.

Nicole Karlis: Yeah. Well, hmm. So, I spent some time when I was doing research for my book on USC's campus in California, the University of Southern California, with, um, the university's Director of Belonging, uh, her name is Cat Moore. She's moved on from that position now, but she was hired because they realized they had kind of a crisis on campus that a lot of students were saying they didn't feel like they belonged, and it was also running parallel to, you know, like, a loneliness crisis among youth. And so, I spent a weekend with her doing various activities, you know, "What does a Director of Belonging do on a college campus?" And one activity was just having some students give out flowers to students. And, uh, one student, when she received a flower, just started bawling, and she was like, "I have found it so hard to meet people on campus. Um, it's, you know, I've been through so much, like, I wouldn't have talked to anyone today if you hadn't reached out, you know, to me," and it was just really a beautiful moment to see how altruism can be a catalyst for the deeper connections that we want. And just in that moment, that student who was having a hard time, she knew, you know, she wasn't alone. People want to connect with you, people are thinking of you. And that all happened around just, you know, one random act of kindness, and people remember those, and it actually, the science shows it inspires you to want to pay it forward and be more altruistic in your life as well.

Julie Rose: So, finally, Nicole Karlis, describe for me if we were to wake up tomorrow in a community that was very aware of and focused on caring for one another, what would we see? What, what, what would we notice about what's going on in our community?

Nicole Karlis: Um, well, I think we would notice that people were more willing to be kinder to each other, that they were more willing to be more patient with each other. I think people would be in better health. In the book, I talk about prioritizing, caring in our society, the act of caring and, you know, we can't experience the benefits of being of, of service unless, really, I, I think there's systemic change, unless we have what I call, "a culture of caring," and it doesn't have to be massive, the change. It could just be, you know, whoever is a leader in whatever industry or whatever their places in this world, just by being kinder to people that you interact with, just by prioritizing caring and seeing it as a, as a strength and not a weakness.

Julie Rose: Nicole Karlis is an award-winning journalist and author of a new book called "Your Brain On Altruism: the Power of Connection and Community During Times of Crisis," and you can learn more about the book and about her work at nicolemkarlis, that's K-A-R-L-I-S, .com. Nicole, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

Nicole Karlis: Thank you for having me, Julie.

Julie Rose: And thank you for getting Uncomfy with us today. I'd love to hear about an act of service, either one that you received or that you gave that was maybe a little Uncomfy. How did it go, and what are your thoughts now, in hindsight? What can we learn from your experience? Send an email to uncomfy@byu.edu or connect with us on social media. We are @uncomfy.podcast on Instagram. Uncomfy is a BYUradio podcast. Samuel Benson produces it, and the team includes Hyobin Kim and Sam Payne. Our theme music was composed by Kelsey Nay. I'm Julie Rose. Can't wait to get Uncomfy with you again next week.