Airdate: August 13, 2025
Julie Rose: Hey friends, it's Julie. Just a quick note before we start today. In this conversation with Melissa Bottorff-Arey, we are gonna be talking about suicide, grief, and mental health. And while we approach these topics with care and compassion, we understand they may be difficult for some listeners, so please listen in a way that feels safe for you. And if you or someone you know is struggling, we have linked to support resources in the show notes. All right, let's go.
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: People stay at a distance, and they use the reasoning that they just don't know what to say. They don't wanna make you more sad, so they don't show up. We just need people to show up. You need somebody, and it's okay to say, "I don't know what to say. I have no idea how I would feel, but I'm here."
Julie Rose: Hey there, it's Julie. Welcome to Uncomfy, a show about sticking with moments that challenge us even when they are uncomfortable. And I know you're probably wondering, "Why would anybody choose to be uncomfortable?" But I know from personal experience, and you probably do too, that sometimes a little discomfort has benefits if we can stay open and curious about it. And that is what we're here to explore, so let's get Uncomfy. I'm joined by Melissa Bottorff-Arey. She's a grief coach and host of The Leftover Pieces, which is a podcast for life after suicide loss. Melissa, welcome. Thanks so much for your time today.
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: Thank you. Thank you for having
me.
Julie Rose: So, your son, Alex, was 21 when he died by suicide back in August, 2016, and you actually mentioned suicide as the cause of death right there in the first sentence of his obituary, which is, it's an unusual thing, not something a lot of people would be comfortable doing. I'd love to hear what went into that for you. Why, why did you do that?
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: Well, thanks for asking. That's a good question, and I wish I could lend something to it that sounded like I had more forethought and intention in it, but I didn't. I led with my instincts, and I don't think I actually said the word "suicide," but I said, "Alex ended his life on," and gave the date in the first sentence, and it really was just about instinct because it was accurate and there was nothing inside of me that was ashamed of my son; however, it's turned out to be something that means more to me now to realize that, instinctually, I was willing to lean into breaking down that stigma without even realizing it.
Julie Rose: What is it that it means to you now? Why, in
hindsight, if you did it instinctually, but in hindsight, why do you think it
mattered, it was important? And, and you also recommend, in the resources that
you provide, you encourage other families to do the same thing. Why?
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: Yeah, the death of a child is complicated in itself, right, because it's an out of order death. We don't ever expect to outlive our children, but suicide carries an additional layer of complication. So, because it is still so stigmatized,people, um, wanna shush it into the dark corners.So, in retrospect, and why I encourage people to lean into it is for themselves, but also for the community as a whole. First, for themselves because the sooner we cannot put ourselves in that shame, blame game that we're going to do on some level anyway, the better for our own healing journey. But also, it just is going to uncomplicate things. I have watched a lot of things over the years, and almost five years of having people on the podcast and having community members for years now, the people that do hide from it, they add extra complications to an already complicated story. Um, they have to think about what to tell people, they have to remember who knows and who doesn't, and they're constantly still keeping themselves in that closet of, of somehow there's something "wrong" with the way their loved one died if they don't just you know, lead with it and accept it from the beginning, and I don't really like the word "accept," so I just used it, but it's, it's for those reasons. And then from the, for the community standpoint, it helps them, it helps break down that stigma because it gives 'em a platform to start going forward into the space of, "What, why does suicide happen?" And that's just something that is still confusing to people, and many people assume the wrong thing about why young people die by suicide.
Julie Rose: What are some of those misconceptions, and how did tho how did those play out in the way people respond, you know? So, so if, if you have an obituary that says, "This 21-year-old young man died by suicide," and you have another one in the paper the same day that says, "This 21-year-old man died from leukemia," uh, some or some or, or even an accident. Talk to me a little bit about what you think some of those misconceptions are and how that shapes the way we show up for people when,
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: oh, I know what, I know what a lot of the misconceptions are. So, um, I mean, when, when we hear of an accident or a disease, those are the most common other things we hear, especially with young people, we have this incredible empathy for people of, "Oh my gosh, you know, how horrible," and we show up, and we ask them if what we can do, and we, we're more willing to lean in and talk about their loved one. When it's suicide, there's a lot more, like, it's like a collective oxygen suck out of the room, and people don't know what to say, they don't know how to act, and many, many people assume that the family must have been doing something wrong or there was something hidden in the family that they didn't know about, or there was some fill-in-the-blank: addiction, severe mental health issue. And don't get me wrong, there are people that die by suicide, young and old, that that may have fit the traditional model of, of who would be at more risk. We are seeing in this last decade, plus a year or two, people that don't fit that model: these young people under, we'll just say under the age of 30, and I hate to say this out loud now, but over the age of 12, um, that just takes my breath away a little bit to, to realize how young we're losing people this way, um, that somehow there was a, a blame, and nobody puts a blame when it's, I mean, okay, if it's a car accident, somebody might assign a blame, but that's a blame that we can live with because it's external. It's really complicated to blame the person that died.
Julie Rose: Yeah. You, you said, "It's important to name it because
you're not ashamed." You weren't ashamed of Alex, your son.
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: Right.
Julie Rose: So, by naming it, you're separating this action that ended his life and, from him, kind of who he was or the, the, what he stood for and what you can remember.
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: Julie, I just had an epiphany. Um, I, I'm a narrative therapy coach as my, as my grief coaching, which, which means we separate the problem from the person. You know, I'm not a depressed person, I'm someone who depression is affecting, and so you take that away. But long before I even knew I was gonna do narrative therapy for this, there must have been something in me predetermined to lean into that type of healing because it's the same thing, separating how Alex died from Alex. Alex happened to die this way, but it doesn't have any effect on who Alex was as a person. And a lot of times, by hiding it, it's, it starts to feel that way. It doesn't mean it's any more true, but there's that feeling, um, that comes with it of there must have been something to hide.
Julie Rose: So, that become, then that becomes the
person in the family who nobody talks about because they died in this way that
feels shameful or embarrassing, and therefore they must have been shameful and
embarrassing somehow, right?
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: And they take, and they, yeah,
exactly. And they take the lead from the initial, intimate family circle, if
you will. So, if the first circle is acting hush about it, then everybody else
is going to, and it perpetuates that stigma, which then bleeds off onto people
that are struggling, Julie, because if we can't talk about suicide loss openly
and suicidality and, and suicidal behavior openly, then how does somebody
that's struggling step forward and say, "It's this bad, I'm having suicidal
thoughts," because they don't feel safe to do so because it's shamed and
stigmatized?
Julie Rose: Well, but we, what people worry about
though, and I certainly have worried about, "If I'm too open about it,
it's gonna put ideas in the minds of those people." Like, if I admit that
they, you know, if you admit that Alex died this way, then isn't that gonna
give license to another young person who's also in that stage of life?
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: I also, I love that you brought that up. I hate that it has to be brought up, but I I'm really glad that you leaned into that. Um, you all speak my language here at Uncomfy, um, it's exactly, it's, I live in an Uncomfy world. It's exactly the opposite and, and research has shown, that's not my opinion. Research has shown over and over again that leaning in, especially to young people, with being open, trusting them to be the smart people that they are, trusting that they're already being exposed to these things, what they need are safe places to talk about it, safe places to know that it's not abnormal to have these types of thoughts and to struggle. Um, it actually allows them to lean in and be more likely to ask for help and to find the safe people, people they need to go to with these when they know it's normal, because I hate to say it, and throw that "normal" in air quotes, it is normal in today's world to have anxiety and struggle and, and, you know, at different times, it's gonna be worse than others. But young people today are faced with more than we have ever seen young people faced with as far as what we put on their plate and what we expect them to digest and, and handle that their young brain isn't ready to handle yet, and the sooner we can lean into suicidality is part of our society, it's going to come up in their world, and the sooner we make it as, as easy as them complaining about, you know, "I've been throwing my ball a lot at baseball practice, and my shoulder's really bothering me, mom, and I can't seem to get it worked out. I think I need to go to the doctor," it needs to be that normal to say, "I'm having thoughts that are not okay. I keep thinking I don't wanna be here anymore and that surely isn't something I should be thinking." So, it isn't about normalizing suicide, it's about normalizing suicidality. It's about normalizing the thoughts behind it and the, the, the, the break that can happen in our brain that can cause us to feel that way and seeking help.
Julie Rose: The, the resources that you provide your podcast and your, and your therapy, your counseling are, um, in particular for mothers who have lost a child to suicide, um, or at least that's one of the, you know, one of the, the areas that you have lived yourself personally and have expertise in. So, what is a helpful way to respond, um, to someone, to a mother who's lost a child to suicide?
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: The most helpful way to respond is to just show up, meaning don't shy away, don't stay away because you, a lot of, suicide, more than most, I won't say more than any, but more than most, people stay at a distance, and they use the reasoning that they just don't know what to say. They don't wanna make you more sad, so they don't show up. We just need people to show up. You need somebody, and it's okay to say, "I don't know what to say. I have no idea how I would feel, but I'm here."
Julie Rose: Is grief different when it's a suicide loss,
or is grief is grief is grief and it's all the same?
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: Um, grief is not grief is grief is grief, and I've learned that through this process, and I'm not sure it's suicide loss as much as child loss, um, but suicide definitely complicated it. So, um, before losing Alex, my father died when I was only 30, when my kids were little, and he was only 48, and I've lost a few friends, so between losing my dad, some friends, and my grandparents, who I all love very dearly, I kind of thought I knew grief, and the loss of my child doesn't even, like, live in that world. So, when you add the complication of suicide loss, mothers who have lost a child to suicide really feel lonely and isolated and it, they become isolated very quickly because so many people do stay away. They don't know how to deal with the unimaginable, and let's face it, we don't either. Um, and so, people tend to, to say "Well, I just didn't wanna, I didn't wanna bring up Alex because I don't wanna make you sad." Here's the reality: a mother is never gonna forget, there's not one moment that goes by. I've heard people say, "Melissa, I just didn't wanna remind you." I promise you I didn't forget, not for one instant, and so I wanna be reminded of Alex's life. I wanna talk about him, I wanna hear their memories. I wanna share my memories. I still want Alex to be brought up. I still want his legacy to matter, and that's really true for moms early on, we still want people to show up and care, and if you don't know what to say, say, "I don't know what to say, but I'm here, and I care about you," and then keep doing it.
Julie Rose: What is Alex's legacy?
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: Alex was an outgoing, gregarious, incredible, giving young man. He was the kid that was there for all of his friends. He was that unique blend of varsity athlete meets show choir kid meets state level president of his technology association. He didn't have an enemy, and he had a million best friends, and he gave the best hugs in the world. Um, I miss him every single day, and yet his legacy, he's here with me every day working in spirit, doing this work. Um, I wish he was here and I didn't have to be doing it, Julie, but he shines through so bright, and being able to turn towards his life has been really powerful in my journey. So, I hope somebody takes something from that leaning into their legacy and their life. Really, moms especially, but I would say lots of suicide loss grievers, get really stuck in the moment and the cause of the death and being able to, at some point, turn away from that, and bring them with you. Like I always say, "We're not moving on, we're moving forward," so being able to move forward with Alex has been so powerful to me, um, and to give him space, the same as I give my other living children space, so thanks for asking.
Julie Rose: Thank you for sharing. Melissa Bottorff-Arey is a grief coach and educator. She's host of The Leftover Pieces, which is a podcast for suicide loss survivors to find, support, community, and healing, and you can find out more about her work and her resources at theleftoverpieces.com. And if you or someone you know is struggling, please know that help is available. The Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is free, it's confidential, it's open 24/7. You can dial 988 to talk to someone. Thank you for sharing your story with us today, Melissa. I really appreciate it.
Melissa Bottorff-Arey: I'm, I'm honored to be able to
share it, and I hope that it helps just one person.
Julie Rose: And thank you for getting Uncomfy with us today. I hope this was helpful, and I'd love to hear your thoughts. Email me at uncomfy@byu.edu or connect with us on social media to continue the conversation, we are @uncomfy.podcast over on Instagram. Uncomfy is a BYUradio podcast. Samuel Benson produces it, and the team includes Hyobin Kim and Sam Payne. Our theme music was composed by Kelsey Nay. I'm Julie Rose. Can't wait to get Uncomfy with you again next week.
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