How to Have Conversations That Actually Work Even on Hot-Button Issues - Becca Kearl

Airdate: June 18, 2025 

Julie Rose: How do you make sure that a tough conversation doesn't end badly?

Becca Kearl: Your stories and experiences are infinitely more interesting than your opinions, and it's so much easier to feel curious or engaged or, better understand where people are coming from because you're getting their backstories.

Julie Rose: Hey, it's Julie. Welcome to Uncomfy, a show about sticking with moments that challenge us even when they're uncomfortable. And I know you're probably wondering, "Why would anybody choose to be uncomfortable?" But I have learned from personal experience, and you probably have too, that sometimes a little discomfort has some benefits if we can stay open and curious about it. And that's what we're here to explore, so let's get Uncomfy.

Today, I am joined by Becca Kearl. She's the executive director of a nonprofit called Living Room Conversations, which gives people resources to build connection and understanding within communities and across our many differences. I've actually participated in several Living Room Conversations using the framework that they have. It's been a great experience, so I'm really excited to have Becca here today. Welcome.

Becca Kearl: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Julie Rose: So, I understand that the very first big community conversation that you organized is actually really quite a story. I would love to hear it. This happened, uh, about eight years ago, right?

Give us the scenario. What, what, what was going on?

Becca Kearl: Yeah, so it was 2017 and I had recently moved to a new community and was looking for ways to, you know, be more integrated or bring people together. And I had a couple of experiences that led me to want to organize a large scale community conversation. And so, I was looking at, "What are the issues? What's something that would be really relevant for this community? What makes us unique? What are the things we wish we were talking about or we need to be talking about?" And so, I settled on a conversation on sex education. Um, you know, just really low bar. Let's talk about sex.

Julie Rose: Okay, okay, and so, I mean, what were you hoping to accomplish? Was there a specific policy you were hoping to advocate for? What, what was your hope with this event?

Becca Kearl: Yeah. The, the whole state is kind of grounded in abstinence education, but there were three school districts that had an even more stringent policy, and I just thought that was interesting and was wondering, "You know, why is that? And if we're looking at our community as a whole, if we're not going to rely on schools to give sex education, then what does that look like for the rest of the community?" And so, I had about a dozen or two dozen phone calls just randomly calling people, and I would say, "I'm trying to understand this issue. Can you tell me a little bit about what it looks like from where you stand?" And then I would ask, "Who else should I be talking to?" And so, I got connected to all of these people I had no connections with previously, and I organized a panel and found a moderator and then did a lot of marketing, and we had about 60 people who gathered in the city council chambers to have this conversation. And this is, I, at this point, I have zero background in doing this sort of thing, so...

Julie Rose: You, you hadn't been trained as a mediator, a moderator?

Becca Kearl: None of that.

Julie Rose: Worried that this was gonna go badly? Like, we've all seen the videos of even when this topic comes up at a city, at, like, a school board meeting, right? Oh my goodness.

Becca Kearl: Exactly. Um, so, really, I feel like my mom did a good job of modeling, just going big. Just try it. Like if you're interested in it and you have the time and the desire to do it, you can ask people for advice, you know, and if it doesn't work, she was also really good at kind of laughing about mistakes and,  I think that, you know, when you're uncomfortable, one of the best things that you can do is to do a lot of listening and be really curious about things. So, I think having all of those different phone conversations ahead of the event helped me better visualize or understand how this could play out.

Julie Rose: What was the structure that you arranged so that there could be the amount of listening that was, that you knew was gonna be required because you had had all these conversations, you were in that headspace, and maybe the people up on the stage were, but what about all the people in the audience?

Becca Kearl: Yeah, so we started out, uh, all of those phone calls that I did, helped me put together a panel, and so we had a lot of different perspectives, we had someone who was an abstinence policy evaluator, the school board member who had written the current policy, we had the founder of a conservative grassroots advocacy group grounded in maternal feminism, a community health educator, uh, and another progressive parent advocate, and was really thoughtful about the kind of questions, kind of asking people, "In essence, you know, how do you see the issue from your work, from your position, from your experience, and what do you wish the community understood?"

And so, they were able to sort of model the conversation, and we met the night before at my house. I invited people over just to kind of get to know each other a little bit before they had to be on a panel together, and I think that helped. Just the ability to get to know each other, see each other as human beings, I feel like humanizing each other outside of an issue that you're gonna talk about is really critical and important, and so it was just, it was just a way to say, "Oh yeah, you know, we all have kids. Our kids go to school. We like soccer," whatever the thing is to build those short bridges first, um, and see each other as human before you go into a potentially higher conflict conversation or scenario.

Julie Rose: So, then take us to that night. You've got, you've got this panel that is prepared. What's going on in the room as well?

Becca Kearl: So, we also wanted to give people a chance to connect with others they didn't necessarily know, or with people who they would probably disagree with, so as people walked in, we had red name tags, blue name tags, and purple name tags, and it was kind of, "On this issue, which way do you lean politically? So, is it more conservative, moderate, more progressive?” And so, then we made sure that there was a good composition at each table, so they'd have the chance to, to try to engage in this kind of conversation, which was modeled beautifully by the panel. They also had questions and, like, a structure, like a Living Room Conversation that they could follow at each table but really left it up to them to do it, so we didn't have trained facilitators or moderators at each table. It was just, "Here's the structure, and here's this guide, um, here's how you're gonna move through the questions. Make sure that you're listening to each other, take turns." And there was one table in particular that I kind of had my eyes on because there was one couple who I knew was conservative, they homeschooled their children, uh, she participated in this group that advocated for traditional family values at the UN, and then there was another couple with a non-binary individual who had makeup, earrings, a beard, long hair, and a dress, and then there were three single people in their twenties and thirties, and so I kind of was really curious to see how the conversation would play out at that table specifically.

So, uh, I followed up with the table afterwards. I talked to the more conservative woman and asked her, and she said, "That was amazing. I learned so much," and she was emotional. She's like, "I learned so much from the people at the table. I have new ideas that I'm gonna bring home, new ways to talk to my kids. We exchanged emails, and we're gonna stay in touch." And I think about it all the time, right? Like, it wasn't a lot of time that they had in the conversation, it was less than an hour and that they were able to get past maybe their preconceived notions about each other because they were wearing red, blue, purple name tags, and there were some visual cues that maybe we wouldn't get along or maybe we're too different to be able to connect. And it was actually just last month, I ran into someone else who had been at that table, and she brought it up and she says, "I talk about this conversation all the time." I mean, this was in 2017. And I asked her to kind of tell me more about it from her vantage point, and she said, "You know, I don't really remember the specifics, but I remember each person in the conversation, and at the end everybody was hugging each other," and it was this idea of, you know, being transparent or vulnerable enough to really see each other and to feel known, and that allowed them to appreciate each other rather than hiding certain parts of themselves from each other.

Julie Rose: What did that experience unlock for you then?

Becca Kearl: I think there were a couple of things happening. One is appreciating how much I like learning from other people and talking to them, and the other, just this, really this empowerment of, "I can make things happen in my community. I don't need someone to give me permission." You know, I just went to the mayor's office and said, "Can we have these kind of conversations and will you help to sponsor them?" And then I went to restaurants and said, "Will you give me, you know, free food for the conversation?" And I think that the other thing that happened is once I experienced the power of this, I feel like "addicted" is a strong word, but I just craved more of it and, and just this is what I wanted to do. And so, very soon after that, the opportunity came up to connect with Living Room Conversations and start working with them, and I've never turned back.

Julie Rose: And so, Living Room Conversations is not necessarily organizing these kinds of events for people to attend. It's really, actually trying to give people the tools to, to do their own conversations in whatever format they decide is gonna work for them?

Becca Kearl: Yeah, it's a little bit of both. So, we have a library of over 150 topics that are free and available for personal use, and the design and structure of the guide really creates the container for you and takes away some of, you know, the fears or barriers that you may have about having the conversation. We also have staff-led conversations online every month that anyone can join.

Julie Rose: I, I'd love to talk about the tools, what this container is that you're able to provide through these guides that, 'cause you, you're promising that it can help people to feel confident putting one of these together. But if I can be personal for just a moment, there is a conversation that, for several years, I have felt is really, really needed in my neighborhood and, uh, faith community, but it's really scary and I keep thinking, "Oh, we really need to have one of these Living Room Conversations," then I'm like, "Yeah, but I don't wanna be responsible if it goes bad, or what if, you know, like, what if it ends up causing harm," you know? I just, it, it's, it's terrifying to me. So, talk me through some of the materials, or what is the, what is the framework that you feel like makes it so that these go, more often than not, go well.

Becca Kearl: This is one of the questions I get every time I speak or talk to someone is, "When has it just blown up? When has it been a disaster?" And really, I can confidently say, "It's never really been a disaster." And I feel like one of the things that happens is people are showing up, they're setting aside time, and they're showing up with the intention to have a conversation, so there's some sort of preparation or opting in that you know, everyone there is choosing to be there, and then we have a set of conversation agreements. So, those are things like, "Listen and be curious. Show respect and suspend judgment. Be authentic and welcome that from others. Look for common ground and appreciate any differences. Be purposeful and to the point, and own and guide the conversation." So, these are things that we're all kind of agreeing to do and they invite more of an open mindset.

And so, we have these agreements, and then we have three different rounds of questions, and the first one is around our shared values. So, again, this is kind of like what we did the night before with the panel of just seeing each other as human beings. "What would your best friend say about who you are? Let me get to know you a little bit before we dive into whatever the topic is." And then the topic questions are designed to draw out your personal experience rather than your opinions because your stories and experiences are infinitely more interesting than your opinions, and it's so much easier to feel curious or engaged or, uh, better understand where people are coming from, maybe how they formed those opinions that you may not agree with because you're getting their backstories. You know, our brains are wired for storytelling, and that's what makes learning sticky. They, they light up when we hear stories.

Julie Rose: And do, but do you find that that's not act, it makes perfect sense, but do you find that that's not actually our inclination if we're not prompted to, that we tend to wanna talk about our opinion rather than our stories?

Becca Kearl: Absolutely. And I think, you know, part of that is social media, right, where processing and sharing information happens within five seconds and we, we see something that we react to and we automatically repost it, and we're not sitting with it. And I'm sure, you know, I have issues that I care about deeply that as soon as they're brought up, it's like your brain is running through this catalog of, "Oh, they said this issue. This is what I say when this issue comes up," rather than, "What makes you, why do you care about this so much? Like, what experiences have you had in your life with this population of people or around this issue?" Like, that's a very different thing because we are reactive and that's our inclination. And I think another aspect I think is really important that I see playing out all the time is issues we care about deeply become part of our identity, so when people disagree with us, it feels like they're rejecting who we are because I care so much about this issue, it's so much a part of who I am, but you may not see the experience that makes me care so deeply about it, you just see that I, I don't agree with you.

Julie Rose: Can the goal be, is the goal of these conversations to actually create some kind of change, to change minds? I mean, what, what, what is the point if it's just about connection with, which you've made the really strong argument for, that you can come to care for one another, understand each other better? So, what if the division still exists?

Becca Kearl: Um, I kind of have two responses for that. I think that we're in a moment where we desperately need more connection. You know, the US Surgeon General released the report on the epidemic of loneliness. We are farther apart from each other. We spend more time online. Faith community membership is plummeting. I mean, that really is what we do, and it will extend our life expectancy just by being connected to each other. So, I think that that, in and of itself, is a huge outcome, and it's something that we all need. I think that what this model and format does is really create the conditions or the foundation for us to work together. I can't overstate enough how critical it is just to practice understanding different perspectives, like that's a really core skill, especially in our current moment where we're so politically polarized, having a formalized or structured way to practice skills, like listening and curiosity, understanding different perspectives, sets you up to then apply them to other areas of your life. And we all benefit from a community who are comfortable practicing those skills.

Julie Rose: So, how can people find those conversations in order to do the practice, and/or how can they find the resources to try to get up the nerve like I am right now? Like, "Oh gosh, I really gotta do this."

Becca Kearl: Yeah. Um, on our website, it's livingroomconversations.org, and you can access any of our conversation guides and try having a conversation. I would also say, if that seems scary for you, I think that you can start small. You can go through a day like a social experiment, give six compliments to people, chat in the grocery line, text someone that you thought of, just practice reaching out and putting yourself out there, and then absolutely have a Living Room Conversation. I think that you'll be surprised how easy it is to do once you try.

Julie Rose: Becca Kearl is the executive director of Living Room Conversations, and that website is livingroomconversations.org. Becca, thanks so much for spending time with us today.

Becca Kearl: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Julie Rose: And thank you for getting Uncomfy with us today. What's the conversation you'd like to see happening in your community or your neighborhood? I'm feeling a little more emboldened to try to make a conversation happen in my community. I'd love to hear what you are thinking about. Email uncomfy@byu.edu or find us on social media to connect.

Uncomfy is a BYUradio podcast. Samuel Benson produces it, and the team includes Hyobin Kim and Sam Payne. Our theme music was composed by Kelsey Nay. I'm Julie Rose. Can't wait to get Uncomfy with you again next week.​