He Left Mainstream Media to Do News Differently. Here’s What He Learned. – Mosheh Oinounou (Mo News)

 

Airdate: April 2, 2025

Julie Rose: If you're trying to stay informed, but you don't know who to trust, then this conversation is for you.

Mosheh Oinounou: "I'm not gonna be like the other guys. I'm not gonna just, like, pick a team and then selectively, show you things that make your side look good and make the other side look bad."

Julie Rose: Hey, it's Julie. Welcome to Uncomfy, a show about sticking with moments that challenge us even when they're uncomfortable. And you're probably wondering, "Why would anybody choose to be uncomfortable?" But I know from personal experience, and you probably do too, that sometimes a little discomfort has benefits if we can stay open and curious in those moments. And that's what we're here to explore, so let's get Uncomfy.

Julie Rose: Look, trying to stay informed about what's happening in the world right now is a constant source of discomfort for me, personally. Two-thirds of Americans just straight up don't trust the news media. I often feel like media outlets are intentionally trying to either exhaust me or enrage me, which is why my morning routine now starts with listening to the Mo News Daily podcast. It's a roundup of the day's big stories with reporting from across the political spectrum. Mo News's founder, Mosheh Oinounou, often says he's out to shed light, not heat, which is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm really pleased to have Mosheh with me today on Uncomfy. Welcome!

Mosheh Oinounou: Julie, it's great to be with you.

Julie Rose: So, now you're considered one of the, uh, kind of vanguard of news influencers on social media.

Mosheh Oinounou: That's what they're trying to call us, yes.

Julie Rose: You've got a big following over on Instagram @mosheh, which is M-O-S-H-E-H, but you actually started out in, like, traditional news, actually TV news. Tell us a little bit about that.

Mosheh Oinounou: Yeah, so, my story starts, uh, I went to college, was interested in journalism, got a couple TV internships with ABC News, and then Fox News 20 years ago. And my first, my first job was with the Fox News Channel, uh, was there for a number of years covering politics.I would spend time in Washington there covering the White House, covering Congress, covering political campaigns. I went over to Bloomberg Television, was there for a couple years covering international business news, and then spent about a decade at CBS News, uh, handling various executive roles for The Morning Show, the evening news, so, uh, about 15 years there in traditional network and cable news, uh, before going out on my own.

Julie Rose: And tell us about the decision to kind of leave. I mean, you were sort of at the pinnacle, in charge of, you were the executive, right, producer, right, of the, of CBS evening news?

Mosheh Oinounou: So, CBS, uh, was, well, if you know anything about CBS news, they've been in a lot of flux for the better part of 30 years, uh, and I was actually, I joked, I think I was the 12th executive producer in 20 years of the evening newscast. They'd give us each, like, a year or 18 months, if we were lucky, to, like, turn things around. They've been in third place since the early nineties. And so, uh, unfortunately, there were management changes and just as I felt like I was getting my footing, they're like, "Actually, we're gonna change the show again," and I was like, "You know what? I've been here 10 years. I need a break from the grind, the daily grind of network news," so I thought I'd go into work in documentaries and was really spending basically the back half of 2019 kinda looking around, seeing what else was out there. Uh, lo and behold, in early 2020, the pandemic, uh, happens, and it's the first time in my life I'm not in a traditional newsroom during a major news story, so sort of internally freaking out.

But then my friends and family are asking me questions because they always knew me as the guy who is, they could ask, have answers to their questions. Said, "Listen, there's a lot of you texting me. I'm gonna just start posting things that I'm seeing out there on Instagram," not thinking I was starting a business or my own media account, but more of a, a boredom exercise and a way to inform friends and family, uh, during the beginning of COVID there. Well, you know what started was a couple hundred people became a few thousand, became tens of thousands, and then suddenly what I thought was a temporary exercise, I realized was an opportunity to create something new, that people came to rely upon my coverage. You know, first and foremost I was like, "We're gonna be facts first. We're not gonna pick a team here. We're gonna give you non-partisan. Uh, I'm I'm going to use my experience as a journalist and the reporters that I trust and the publications that I trust to kind of break things down for you, uh, and try to elevate what I think is the important information, not the information that's going to freak you out or make you click."

Julie Rose: What did you realize, maybe even an uncomfortable realization you had, um, in those early days when you were on the outside, you weren't in the media newsroom, and you were just a consumer, right? Like, like, as a consumer, were you having recogni, realizations about how the media works?

Mosheh Oinounou: Yeah, you know, I, I think that when you're in the belly of the beast, so to speak, inside the media, making those decisions, uh, you don't consume the news like a consumer. Like, I'm sitting there, in many cases, I spent most of my career, as do most of the decision makers in national newscast, in Washington DC or New York City, uh, trying to take in everything and putting together stories that we think our audience will either like, uh, or will attract them and keep them around, right? And so, there's sort of an incentive to pick stories that yes, are important and are interesting, but also controversial, have conflict. You know, you're not gonna, I'm not gonna get you to watch tonight by telling you that everything was totally calm today, nothing really happened, and 99.9% of planes landed safely. I'm gonna get you by telling you about the one plane where there was an incident, uh, and so I think my initial realization as a consumer of the news was like, "Oh my God, what, what are we doing to people in terms of giving them a, a reality or a, a, a feeling that this is the reality, when in fact this isn't exactly what a majority of people think?" This is just what the two loudest voices in the room on each side have been yelling at each other." So, I think one thing is sort of a, a retrospective, like a, a new glimpse on, uh, what my previous role was, what my previous institutions were doing, how my colleagues were both, uh, in some ways, trying to help people, but in some ways really hurting the dialogue, hurting the conversation, hurting the civil discourse. I mean, 'cause at the end of the day, you know, we have a private media, they're out for a profit, they're out for viewers, they're out for, um, shareholders. So, I think realization one was, like, uh, a new perspective on the media.

Julie Rose: I mean, did you feel just a little bit guilty for having been part of that?

Mosheh Oinounou: I don't know if "guilt" is the right word. I think a, a, again, it was, it was new insight. Like, I myself always within an institution, I should say, you know, wanted to get at the facts. But at the same time, like, knew that, like, "We're running a business. If no one watches what we're doing, then what's the point of what we're doing? So, we have to find a way to hook them." You know, uh, we often talk about media and news stories as, like, a diet or as food. Like, if I'm only gonna feed you broccoli and talk about all the broccoli I'm gonna give you, that's only gonna attract a certain portion of the audience. I need to also tell you about some chocolate and some dessert that I, I'm gonna offer you tonight as well. So, um, I feel back, looking back at my career, that, um, I made decisions that I thought were the best for both, uh, the viewers as well as, uh, the company, but at the end of the day, I think that, uh, those business interests are uh, certainly, uh, getting in the way of, you know, what was mission number one for so many years at media companies, which is ensuring people have, uh, all the facts they need.

Julie Rose: So, what's something, what's an example? Can you think of something that you have covered differently, uh, on your Instagram and your podcast, differently, you've made different choices about what to cover or how to cover something than you would have made at CBS evening news, for example?

Mosheh Oinounou: Well, I, I have a couple things to my advantage. Number one, uh, I am on my own, right? Like, it's not a, you know, a huge institution with, uh, corporate overlords, so to speak, and so I have a lot more flexibility. I also have flexibility on timing. You know, the evening news, once you take out commercials, you're doing about 20 minutes of news every night, so your job is to tell the whole, the whole country about what happened in the country, in the world, in about 20 minutes. Once I break that down, uh, I really can only tell you six or seven stories, like, in full. And when I say in full, I can devote about 1:15 to 1:20 to each of those stories, um, and then I can tell you a couple really short stories, 20 seconds. You know, we'd pride ourselves on telling you a story in about eight seconds, sometimes. Eight seconds! There's no context there. And so, one of the things I get to do is provide people context, right, and do history, um, and do it in a way where, uh, I can also have a dialogue with, uh, the viewer, with the consumer, people on Instagram messaging me back, being like, "What about this? What about this? I thought this," and I'm like, "You know what? That's a good question. Like, let's dive into that."

And so, uh, ultimately here, there's a real dialogue. I think, uh, you know, a couple stories that I approached differently, um, I think that there was a, uh, incentive, uh, during, uh, COVID to talk about worst case scenarios. And you've, there's actually been analysis done of US media coverage versus European media coverage on COVID, and we have the most overwhelmingly negative coverage of things. Even studies that showed, like, you know, various positive elements or, like, caveats, you know, uh, that stuff wasn't as well covered. And there's an incentive here in the US, um, again, the aforementioned business aspect of it. If I tell you like, "Oh my God, like, death and destruction," you might tune in tonight. You know, the media loves, uh, like, shark attacks. Uh, there's, like, four of them a year on earth, but we covered them like really significantly. Um, when, like, there's a lot of others issues. You know what the deadliest animal is on earth? The mosquito. It carries disease. There's, like, little to no coverage of mosquito, right? Like, like, and, and so, like, the mosquito through malaria, you know, through the diseases that it brings people, kills way more people than shark attacks every year. But I think there is a tendency, like, because of the way the media covers things, we get a warped sense of what's actually happening in this country.

Julie Rose: You know, it's, it's so interesting to hear you, um, pointing out these things that, uh, that I too have noticed in, in media coverage, but also you are somebody who's now doing this on social media, which, uh, the algorithms there also lean into all of the same tendencies, right? So, how are you kind of balancing that? Like, you're, this is your business now. You could, yeah, I mean, to go viral on social media, you gotta do a lot of the things that you're describing that, that are not helpful to us.

Mosheh Oinounou: Listen, I think that if I followed the old rule book of network news, or if I followed the rule book of the algorithm, I would not have 500,000 followers, I would have 5 million followers. Like, I understand that I am fighting uphill, that I, um, I'm doing things that aren't necessarily benefiting me algorithmically, right? That ultimately, um, it's notable, and we know this from the stuff that has been revealed and subpoenaed, uh, from Meta and some of the other larger social media companies, they know that what upsets you drives you to stay on those platforms. What makes you angry keeps you there, right? And so, I understand that, but also I've made a brand of saying, "I'm not gonna be like the other guys.

I'm not gonna just, like, pick a team and then selectively show you things that make your side look good and make the other side look bad." Uh, and by the way, we're not for everybody. I get messages on a near daily basis, they're like, "Mosheh, I can't believe you've become like, you know, uh, a fascist Elon Musk supporter," and then the same time, you know, from the right saying, like, "You're being way too hard on DOGE and Elon Musk." I was like, "Well, pick a, pick it. Which one is it, guys?" Uh, but the thing is we've become so, you know, politics has become so much like, uh, your sports team. right? Like, "This is my team, and, like, I will, uh, you know, support them to the end." Now, interestingly, even in sports, you can acknowledge when your team messed up. Like, "Oh, we need a new coach, or I need a new whatever." Politics is almost beyond that. Like, you won't even acknowledge when you need a new coach, right? You won't acknowledge when, when your side commits any fault, um, on its own.

That, as we speak here, Julie, you know, we're watching this story of this, uh, group chat that national security leaders had, uh, where they discussed, uh, effectively very sensitive military information on a consumer app called Signal. And it's so interesting 'cause some of the people on that chat in the Trump administration were very critical of Hillary Clinton 10 years ago for using an unclassified server for her emails. Uh, and the Democrats at the same time who are very outraged about what just unfolded over the last 24 hours, well, 10 years ago when you asked them about Hillary Clinton, they're like, "No, it's not a big deal." Now, I'm not here to say, I mean, we can get into the nitty gritty of the details and, and the, and the nature of the conversations; nonetheless, "My team is good. Your team is bad," and so I think one of the issues is as a, a news, uh, account, uh, trying to strike that balance, there is certainly, uh, an audience for that and we have found that audience for that, but it isn't necessarily helping me grow by leaps and bounds on a daily basis.

Julie Rose: And what does it mean to be non-partisan, right?  Look, we're all human and we're all gonna, you know, trust certain kinds of perspectives more than others, and it's really hard to get past a lot of that. So, how are you able to kind of be confident that what you are delivering to people is, you know, "just the facts," right, without whatever other bias influencing it?

Mosheh Oinounou: Well, I, I, and number one, you know, I think you, non-partisan is an important way to describe it. Fair is an important way to describe it, because some people like to say, "Oh, I like that, you know, it's unbiased news," or some people have tried to use the term "unbiased." First of all, we all have biases, right? Like, I am a man who lives in New York City, who was raised, you know, born in America, in Chicago. Uh, my dad's a cabinet maker who happens to be an immigrant. I mean, I am Jewish. Like, you can go through a, a litany of things. Like, I'm not 6'8", I'm 5'9", right? And so, like, my height, like, we all have biases based literally on our physicality, on our religion, on our experiences, on the language that we speak, on the place we were born in, right? So, ultimately, how do I guard against those biases, um, or try to counter those biases as I approach a story? And I think one, you know, one thing is, like, reading, getting multiple perspectives, you know, talked about news diet. I also talk about, like, uh, "Bias is okay if people are clear about it." I need to, uh, both read left-wing source, liberal sources and conservative sources for my news.

Uh, you know, I did an experiment, I think last night on Instagram where I was like, "Here's the lead of all the major websites right now," uh, and it was one story, and then, "Here's the lead of foxnews.com right now," a different story. Um, and I think one way to guard against my own biases or perspectives, uh, is to just ensure I'm getting, like, a wide spectrum of sources for my information. So, A, I'm not missing a story, or I'm not missing a perspective on a story. "Oh, that's the way this side sees it." Sometimes, I'll just literally engage the community that I have. "Hey, Republicans, what do you think about this? Hey, Democrats, what do you think about this?" And by the way, it's not just left and right, right? Uh, we, like, can say like, "Hey truckers, how do you guys feel about the tariff, you know, proposals or the port closures?" So, getting perspective of people who are immediately impacted by things is super important. You're never gonna be perfect on these things. There are certainly times where I'll post something or cover a story and I'll get feedback from somebody. Um, sometimes it's very heated, I tend to listen less to those. Sometimes, it's very informed and, like, helpful, like, "Hey listen, uh, I noticed you, you missed this aspect of the story." And sometimes I'll say, "You know what? You're right, we did," and I'll follow up that way. Uh, and so, I think it's a work in progress. I also depend on the people on my team, our growing team here at Mo News, uh, that we both have diversity of perspective and background and geography, uh, and that's super important. So, I think those are all the things that, you know, we try to do, I try to do, uh, to ensure I'm staying true to our, you know, mission.

Julie Rose: And when you have folks who, who listen to you and they say, "Uh, Mosheh, it feels like I don't know who to trust out there. Um, I appreciate what you're delivering, but I just feel like I can't consume anything else because it feels like everybody's got some sort of an agenda or a bias," like, what's your advice to people for what it takes to be an informed, engaged citizen in America these days?

Mosheh Oinounou: Listen, I totally understand the, uh, inclination to unplug. Like, I get it, and some people have to guard their own mental health on things. I mean, I've heard from people in the last few months, uh, who are like, "Listen, I just, uh, I, I like what you're doing, but I'm not gonna be around for a while. Like, I'm taking a break from all of it. Uh, it's creating anxiety and stress," and, like, that's ultimately, um, people are entitled to that. Now, I will say in the world that we live in, uh, I would have more anxiety and stress by not being plugged into what's going on, by ignoring what's happening and not being informed of what's happening. Ignorance is bliss, so to speak, right, to, to folks. Not for me. I think that information is power. Information can be calming, um, data, historical context, all of that can be calming because, you know, one of the common questions we often get is, uh, "Has it always been this way? Is this the worst it's ever been?"

And I'm here to tell you, "No." The answer's typically no. There's always been a worse situation when it comes to most things. Um, and like, name your topic, and I will, like, we will come with a historical example of that. Now, obviously it's different 'cause we're alive now and we weren't alive then, um, but I think, you know, that's, uh, super important. Uh, I mean, getting to your larger question, I think that, uh, gaining multiple perspectives is super important. Uh, figuring out what your diet needs to be. Like, I wouldn't say no diet, but maybe it's like doom scrolling isn't for you. that's why we try to provide multiple things.

Like, I do a morning podcast, we do an afternoon newsletter. If you're, like, more into the news and, like, you wanna engage all day, I got an Instagram feed going all day, but you could check it once a day and just kind of click through it and then you're like, "Okay, I've done my 15 minutes of, like, checking in on, on the world's headlines." Uh, and listen, I think there's a lot of good sources out there, uh, you know, and I think that in the media environment, we're in the whole idea of a email newsletter or a podcast as opposed to like having to scroll a website and trying to get a sense of the world via website or an app, uh, is super difficult, uh, and so I think there's a, there's a lot of ways you can get it in the form that is best for your own mental health.

Julie Rose: I appreciate the, the guidance to kind of lean into it, even though it is, it is challenging, and also, um, one of the things that I find that is the hardest to will myself to do is to consume news that I disa, like, from a perspective that I disagree with, um, because it just makes all of my emotions sort of, you know, get,

Mosheh Oinounou: but, but, but, but I think it's super important, right? Because the number of people who came to me from the right and still today are like, "How could Biden have been elected president?" Or the people on the left are like, "Oh my God, Trump won again, and he won the popular vote?" Well, to me, that shows a lack of, um, you haven't read in on the other side, right? Like, you're living in a bubble. And by the way, a bubble, partially of our own creation, but partially of the creation of, uh, the social media that we follow, because social media is going to both feed you things that are angry, but also reinforce certain notions to you, right? And so, uh, I think that if you don't want to be shocked by things, for the most part, there are gonna be things that surprise all of us, so, totally, but ultimately in terms of trajectory, in terms of, like, if this is mainly American audience, what's happening in this country, uh, you gotta find a way, a time of day or time of the week or however you find it. Like, "I wonder how the other side is thinking about this." And ultimately, we're all humans.

Uh, we are all, in this case, Americans in this country, you know, that ideally all have the best intentions about where we want this country to go, and we want our kids to get a good education, and we want a safe country, and we wanna have successful businesses and successful lives, a successful country, and all of that. And so, I think it's, again, understanding that it is stressful to read opinions and hear opinions that, uh, may go completely against your worldview and you view as offensive, uh, but at the same time, we exist all as one here, and so we need to find a way to at least listen to it, not agree with it, but listen to it.

Julie Rose: Mosheh Oinounou is an award-winning journalist and TV producer. He's the face and the founder of Mo News. You can find him on Instagram @mosheh, M-O-S-H-E-H, uh, or the podcast Mo News, or their website mo.news. This has been really, uh, a delight for me. I really have, I, uh, you're my go-to in the mornings to kind of get a dose of the top headlines of the day, so this has been a treat to talk with you. Thanks, Mo.

Mosheh Oinounou: Julie, thank you so much for having me.

Julie Rose: And thank you for getting Uncomfy with us today. What is a news source that you trust most? Have you had success recently expanding your news consumption to hear perspectives from the other side of the political spectrum? I'd love to hear how it's going for you, how Uncomfy that was. What did you learn from it? Email uncomfy@byu.edu or find us on social media to carry on the conversation.

In the meantime, my other podcast, Top of Mind with Julie Rose, might actually be of real interest to you because over there, it's a narrative journalism podcast, we take one tough topic, we dive deep. We're looking for perspectives that will help us to feel new empathy and leave us feeling empowered and engaged. So, just look for Top of Mind with Julie Rose on your favorite podcast app.

Uncomfy is a BYUradio podcast. Samuel Benson produces it, and the team includes Jake Hasleton, James Hoopes, Isabella Sosa, and Sam Payne. Our theme music was composed by Kelsey Nay. I'm Julie Rose. Can't wait to get Uncomfy with you again next week.